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	<title>Comments on: On Writing for Peanuts</title>
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	<link>http://www.therenegadewriter.com/2009/11/29/on-writing-for-peanuts/</link>
	<description>If you loved the book, read the blog</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 16:51:20 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Karen Elliott</title>
		<link>http://www.therenegadewriter.com/2009/11/29/on-writing-for-peanuts/comment-page-1/#comment-169031</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen Elliott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jan 2010 01:34:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therenegadewriter.com/?p=1523#comment-169031</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m in several groups on Linked In and this seems to be a hot topic all around lately. People post &quot;write for cheap&quot; or &quot;write for nothing now, but later....&quot; posts and LI members ATTACK! Not many of us on Linked In are willing to write for peanuts. Even though I&#039;m just busting out and breaking in, I would not lower my standards. I write well, I get paid well. Period. I enjoyed the point you made about McD&#039;s and chefs. Very entertaining piece and well said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m in several groups on Linked In and this seems to be a hot topic all around lately. People post &#8220;write for cheap&#8221; or &#8220;write for nothing now, but later&#8230;.&#8221; posts and LI members ATTACK! Not many of us on Linked In are willing to write for peanuts. Even though I&#8217;m just busting out and breaking in, I would not lower my standards. I write well, I get paid well. Period. I enjoyed the point you made about McD&#8217;s and chefs. Very entertaining piece and well said.</p>
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		<title>By: Content Mills and Writer Mills 101: A Writer&#8217;s Self-Education is Key &#171; a.k.a writer</title>
		<link>http://www.therenegadewriter.com/2009/11/29/on-writing-for-peanuts/comment-page-1/#comment-167313</link>
		<dc:creator>Content Mills and Writer Mills 101: A Writer&#8217;s Self-Education is Key &#171; a.k.a writer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Dec 2009 08:09:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therenegadewriter.com/?p=1523#comment-167313</guid>
		<description>[...] Linda Formichelli&#8217;s The Renegade Writer On Writing for Peanuts [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Linda Formichelli&#8217;s The Renegade Writer On Writing for Peanuts [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jenn Mattern</title>
		<link>http://www.therenegadewriter.com/2009/11/29/on-writing-for-peanuts/comment-page-1/#comment-165062</link>
		<dc:creator>Jenn Mattern</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Dec 2009 14:52:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therenegadewriter.com/?p=1523#comment-165062</guid>
		<description>Steve -- not clueless at all. It&#039;s good to see someone asking about the value issue rather than simply assume one type of writer is a direct potential replacement for another kind of writer. It&#039;s a common misunderstanding and why the global economy / digital economy issue really has very little to do with writers at the higher end of the pay spectrum. Sorry I didn&#039;t think to branch out the response more initially, but thanks for asking so I could clarify a bit. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve &#8212; not clueless at all. It&#8217;s good to see someone asking about the value issue rather than simply assume one type of writer is a direct potential replacement for another kind of writer. It&#8217;s a common misunderstanding and why the global economy / digital economy issue really has very little to do with writers at the higher end of the pay spectrum. Sorry I didn&#8217;t think to branch out the response more initially, but thanks for asking so I could clarify a bit. <img src='http://www.therenegadewriter.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.therenegadewriter.com/2009/11/29/on-writing-for-peanuts/comment-page-1/#comment-165024</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Dec 2009 05:26:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therenegadewriter.com/?p=1523#comment-165024</guid>
		<description>Jenn,

Thanks for the response. I understand better now what it is that you do and how that market works. I&#039;m sorry if my comment might have been a bit clueless. 

-Steve</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jenn,</p>
<p>Thanks for the response. I understand better now what it is that you do and how that market works. I&#8217;m sorry if my comment might have been a bit clueless. </p>
<p>-Steve</p>
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		<title>By: Jenn Mattern</title>
		<link>http://www.therenegadewriter.com/2009/11/29/on-writing-for-peanuts/comment-page-1/#comment-164897</link>
		<dc:creator>Jenn Mattern</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 14:42:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therenegadewriter.com/?p=1523#comment-164897</guid>
		<description>Steve,

Sorry I wasn&#039;t a bit more clear in my original comment, but here&#039;s some more context:

1. Those blog posts are just a portion of what I write, not my full income (or even the bulk of it). 

2. The majority of blogging I do is business blogging rather than generic Web content like you&#039;ll find on content mills. I&#039;m not given keywords and a title and told to write something for search engines. 

3. When a blog is actually vital to a business (talking about more than earning through Adsense -- something that serves as a communications platform with customers, clients, vendors, colleagues, etc.) companies don&#039;t just hire any old content writer. They hire an authority source in the niche. That&#039;s why I constantly tell writers who come to me for advice that they should think about specializing. 

4. The types of clients who hire authority bloggers or those with specific skills (like a linkbait blogger, someone who&#039;s great at getting community involvement with posts, etc.) generally won&#039;t even consider hiring cheaper writers. Whether it&#039;s &quot;right&quot; or not, there&#039;s a stigma attached. 

So no, I&#039;m not an endangered species. Content mill writers aren&#039;t my competition because we don&#039;t work within the same markets, and that&#039;s true for most writers who charge more. Being able to conduct basic research isn&#039;t enough to cut it in a lot of the higher paying markets. Clients want people who can write from experience and provide insight or opinions that aren&#039;t simply recycled. That&#039;s the type of value they&#039;re looking for. 

Remember, low price isn&#039;t the same thing as value. Content mill writers who will write about anything under the sun can&#039;t offer the same kind of overall value to a business (other than the content mill variety) as a specialist in a niche. On the pricing front, the benefit is that even at much higher rates than $20 per article / post, freelancers are much more cost-effective than hiring regular employees to come on board. When a company would be spending $70k per year for a full-timer after salary, their portion of taxes, insurance, and benefits, they&#039;re very happy to get an experienced niche specialist who can do the same work for $50k in fees, even if it takes them less time. They&#039;re not looking for a generalist at $20k who they still have to train and who hasn&#039;t proven they can deliver on the client&#039;s goals and in their niche or industry. There&#039;s too much risk in that.

Clients paying good money for writers generally don&#039;t need to be convinced of the value in paying well. I&#039;ve found this holds true across all types of business writing I&#039;m involved with, which includes blogging and content writing (corporate blogs, SEO articles for company sites, newsletter articles, etc.). They&#039;ve often learned it the hard way over the years by hiring cheaper contractors first or they&#039;ve hire qualified pros at good rates and seen the kinds of returns they can bring. 

I hope that clarifies the differences a bit. It&#039;s not how long an article takes you that matters (speaking of basic Web content and blogging as opposed to features and marcomm work). It&#039;s about the type of return the client&#039;s looking for. Most commercial clients out there (the ones who pay well but don&#039;t usually advertise publicly) fortunately aren&#039;t looking for content that brings in PPC ad revenue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve,</p>
<p>Sorry I wasn&#8217;t a bit more clear in my original comment, but here&#8217;s some more context:</p>
<p>1. Those blog posts are just a portion of what I write, not my full income (or even the bulk of it). </p>
<p>2. The majority of blogging I do is business blogging rather than generic Web content like you&#8217;ll find on content mills. I&#8217;m not given keywords and a title and told to write something for search engines. </p>
<p>3. When a blog is actually vital to a business (talking about more than earning through Adsense &#8212; something that serves as a communications platform with customers, clients, vendors, colleagues, etc.) companies don&#8217;t just hire any old content writer. They hire an authority source in the niche. That&#8217;s why I constantly tell writers who come to me for advice that they should think about specializing. </p>
<p>4. The types of clients who hire authority bloggers or those with specific skills (like a linkbait blogger, someone who&#8217;s great at getting community involvement with posts, etc.) generally won&#8217;t even consider hiring cheaper writers. Whether it&#8217;s &#8220;right&#8221; or not, there&#8217;s a stigma attached. </p>
<p>So no, I&#8217;m not an endangered species. Content mill writers aren&#8217;t my competition because we don&#8217;t work within the same markets, and that&#8217;s true for most writers who charge more. Being able to conduct basic research isn&#8217;t enough to cut it in a lot of the higher paying markets. Clients want people who can write from experience and provide insight or opinions that aren&#8217;t simply recycled. That&#8217;s the type of value they&#8217;re looking for. </p>
<p>Remember, low price isn&#8217;t the same thing as value. Content mill writers who will write about anything under the sun can&#8217;t offer the same kind of overall value to a business (other than the content mill variety) as a specialist in a niche. On the pricing front, the benefit is that even at much higher rates than $20 per article / post, freelancers are much more cost-effective than hiring regular employees to come on board. When a company would be spending $70k per year for a full-timer after salary, their portion of taxes, insurance, and benefits, they&#8217;re very happy to get an experienced niche specialist who can do the same work for $50k in fees, even if it takes them less time. They&#8217;re not looking for a generalist at $20k who they still have to train and who hasn&#8217;t proven they can deliver on the client&#8217;s goals and in their niche or industry. There&#8217;s too much risk in that.</p>
<p>Clients paying good money for writers generally don&#8217;t need to be convinced of the value in paying well. I&#8217;ve found this holds true across all types of business writing I&#8217;m involved with, which includes blogging and content writing (corporate blogs, SEO articles for company sites, newsletter articles, etc.). They&#8217;ve often learned it the hard way over the years by hiring cheaper contractors first or they&#8217;ve hire qualified pros at good rates and seen the kinds of returns they can bring. </p>
<p>I hope that clarifies the differences a bit. It&#8217;s not how long an article takes you that matters (speaking of basic Web content and blogging as opposed to features and marcomm work). It&#8217;s about the type of return the client&#8217;s looking for. Most commercial clients out there (the ones who pay well but don&#8217;t usually advertise publicly) fortunately aren&#8217;t looking for content that brings in PPC ad revenue.</p>
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		<title>By: DianaBurrell</title>
		<link>http://www.therenegadewriter.com/2009/11/29/on-writing-for-peanuts/comment-page-1/#comment-164853</link>
		<dc:creator>DianaBurrell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 05:31:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therenegadewriter.com/?p=1523#comment-164853</guid>
		<description>Linda, brava for this post. We&#039;ve talked about this in person, but I&#039;ll say it publicly: you&#039;re a much better person than I am for fighting this battle. When I run up against these people, I typically give them a mental shrug and go on my merry way.

What a lot of these content mill writers miss in their dollars-per-hour get-rich fairy tales is that there are writers at the table -- and I like to think I&#039;m one of them -- who care about something called craft. Content mill writers will argue they can write fast and well ... I&#039;m sure many of them can at some level ... but there&#039;s more to writing than stringing words together into a sentence that can be read by a 5th grader. There are those of us who want to write pieces that are evocative, that play with language, even piss readers off a little by presenting a surprising point-of-view. Those kinds of stories take time -- not just researching, but time spent thinking and absorbing and sifting (I spend hours gazing off into space; my husband always looks at me and says, &quot;You&#039;re writing, aren&#039;t you?&quot;). And yes, those of our ilk want to be paid well for those stories -- and I, in most cases, am paid very well for this kind of work.

I have no incentive or desire to convince the writer mill writers to jump ship and come over to my side. Stay there. You&#039;re not taking money or jobs away from me. My concern is for the budding writer who has a voice, a POV (and ironically, my potential competition). Linda&#039;s dead-on right. Listen to her.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Linda, brava for this post. We&#8217;ve talked about this in person, but I&#8217;ll say it publicly: you&#8217;re a much better person than I am for fighting this battle. When I run up against these people, I typically give them a mental shrug and go on my merry way.</p>
<p>What a lot of these content mill writers miss in their dollars-per-hour get-rich fairy tales is that there are writers at the table &#8212; and I like to think I&#8217;m one of them &#8212; who care about something called craft. Content mill writers will argue they can write fast and well &#8230; I&#8217;m sure many of them can at some level &#8230; but there&#8217;s more to writing than stringing words together into a sentence that can be read by a 5th grader. There are those of us who want to write pieces that are evocative, that play with language, even piss readers off a little by presenting a surprising point-of-view. Those kinds of stories take time &#8212; not just researching, but time spent thinking and absorbing and sifting (I spend hours gazing off into space; my husband always looks at me and says, &#8220;You&#8217;re writing, aren&#8217;t you?&#8221;). And yes, those of our ilk want to be paid well for those stories &#8212; and I, in most cases, am paid very well for this kind of work.</p>
<p>I have no incentive or desire to convince the writer mill writers to jump ship and come over to my side. Stay there. You&#8217;re not taking money or jobs away from me. My concern is for the budding writer who has a voice, a POV (and ironically, my potential competition). Linda&#8217;s dead-on right. Listen to her.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.therenegadewriter.com/2009/11/29/on-writing-for-peanuts/comment-page-1/#comment-164840</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 03:14:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therenegadewriter.com/?p=1523#comment-164840</guid>
		<description>Jenn Mattern Said:

&quot;Most blog posts I write for clients are short, basic info or opinion pieces, and they usually fall in the 20-minute to one hour range. These are the types of pieces people think they can only get $15-20 for. Most of my clients pay in the $150-200 range, with the lowest being a little over $70 (and the quickest articles to turn around).&quot;

Jenn,

I don&#039;t want to be confrontational, and maybe I&#039;m missing something obvious, as I&#039;m a lay person and not familiar with the online freelance market. But it really appears from what you&#039;ve said that the kind of articles you describe require no special training or credentials, and only those skills common to literate, educated people. You don&#039;t say anything to indicate what makes your opinion or basic info piece worth that much more money that something written in a similar time period for a content mill for $25. 

What happens if one of your clients stubles on this thread and realizes that there are writers willing to work for far less than they pay you. Are you able to say that you give better value than those people? 

This is a time of economic hardship, and people at all levels of society and the world of business are looking for opportunities to cut costs. Are you an endangered species? 

I&#039;m not trying to diss you. You may be a much better writer than the cheapies. But I&#039;m trying to figure out how all this actually works. 

-Steve</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jenn Mattern Said:</p>
<p>&#8220;Most blog posts I write for clients are short, basic info or opinion pieces, and they usually fall in the 20-minute to one hour range. These are the types of pieces people think they can only get $15-20 for. Most of my clients pay in the $150-200 range, with the lowest being a little over $70 (and the quickest articles to turn around).&#8221;</p>
<p>Jenn,</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t want to be confrontational, and maybe I&#8217;m missing something obvious, as I&#8217;m a lay person and not familiar with the online freelance market. But it really appears from what you&#8217;ve said that the kind of articles you describe require no special training or credentials, and only those skills common to literate, educated people. You don&#8217;t say anything to indicate what makes your opinion or basic info piece worth that much more money that something written in a similar time period for a content mill for $25. </p>
<p>What happens if one of your clients stubles on this thread and realizes that there are writers willing to work for far less than they pay you. Are you able to say that you give better value than those people? </p>
<p>This is a time of economic hardship, and people at all levels of society and the world of business are looking for opportunities to cut costs. Are you an endangered species? </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not trying to diss you. You may be a much better writer than the cheapies. But I&#8217;m trying to figure out how all this actually works. </p>
<p>-Steve</p>
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		<title>By: Friday Link Love 12/4 &#124; Brad&#8217;s Reader</title>
		<link>http://www.therenegadewriter.com/2009/11/29/on-writing-for-peanuts/comment-page-1/#comment-164820</link>
		<dc:creator>Friday Link Love 12/4 &#124; Brad&#8217;s Reader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 22:05:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therenegadewriter.com/?p=1523#comment-164820</guid>
		<description>[...] On writing for peanuts [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] On writing for peanuts [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Cognitive Connection December 4 &#171; a.k.a writer</title>
		<link>http://www.therenegadewriter.com/2009/11/29/on-writing-for-peanuts/comment-page-1/#comment-164744</link>
		<dc:creator>Cognitive Connection December 4 &#171; a.k.a writer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 08:09:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therenegadewriter.com/?p=1523#comment-164744</guid>
		<description>[...] Renegade Writer Blog On Writing for Peanuts Linda Formichelli lends her voice to the “content mill” discussion with this beautifully [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Renegade Writer Blog On Writing for Peanuts Linda Formichelli lends her voice to the “content mill” discussion with this beautifully [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Henri</title>
		<link>http://www.therenegadewriter.com/2009/11/29/on-writing-for-peanuts/comment-page-1/#comment-164681</link>
		<dc:creator>Henri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 17:50:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therenegadewriter.com/?p=1523#comment-164681</guid>
		<description>I started out by selling a few travel pieces and a short story online, while selling some content at a very cheap rate for one particular online site. Next I feel like a hit a brick wall with the travel stories (even the venues where I first sold were uninterested in a second story), but I have found a better paying content mill, which I contribute to weekly and they help pay the bills. Meanwhile, I am still sending off stories, but am still perplexed as to why I can&#039;t find the right market for the travel articles. 

Thanks so much for the informative article.

Henri</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I started out by selling a few travel pieces and a short story online, while selling some content at a very cheap rate for one particular online site. Next I feel like a hit a brick wall with the travel stories (even the venues where I first sold were uninterested in a second story), but I have found a better paying content mill, which I contribute to weekly and they help pay the bills. Meanwhile, I am still sending off stories, but am still perplexed as to why I can&#8217;t find the right market for the travel articles. </p>
<p>Thanks so much for the informative article.</p>
<p>Henri</p>
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